Webinar Replay #111: Marijuana Reclassification and The Clearinghouse

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Lydia Wommack: Hi, everyone. Good morning.

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Lydia Wommack: Thank you so much for joining us today. We are… Really excited to talk with

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Lydia Wommack: Alan today about all of these changes to the marijuana reclassification, from Schedule 1, and what that’s going to mean for the industry. Just a few, just a few housekeeping items today. Remember that we have chatbot set up, so anyone who wants to hop over and say hello and let us know who you’re from, and ask some questions, we’ll be glad to lift those up.

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Lydia Wommack: To Alan and Mark, and would love to talk with you more there.

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Lydia Wommack: And as a reminder, always, we will record this webinar, and we’ll share this afterwards.

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Lydia Wommack: So no worries about missing information. I mean, feel free to take notes, but we’ll send you the replay afterwards. And also, for anyone who is a Certified Director of Safety or Certified Safety Supervisor through the NATME organization, we love NATME. We’re very proud to support that organization, and this webinar is, helpful for some continuing education points, so if you need,

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Lydia Wommack: a certificate after the webinar, let us know, and we’ll send that over to you, too.

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Lydia Wommack: And I think with that, let me get to the main event to our speakers today. We have, of course, Mark Rhea, who joins us often. Mark, how you doing?

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Mark Rhea: Fantastic. Looking forward to today’s session, as we can discuss how we can… or the reality of this marijuana reclassification issue that’s out there. It’s very confusing, and we’re really lucky to have Alan with us today to set the record straight.

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Lydia Wommack: Yes.

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Lydia Wommack: And, Alan, thank you for joining us. It’s been a couple webinars with us now, so thanks for coming back.

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Alan: Thank you. I appreciate very much the opportunity to speak with everyone.

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Alan: The, deploy the…

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Alan: The meeting of the day is about marijuana reclassification and what, what effect it has on the industry, and what it does not have effect on the industry, and in general, how we approach, going forward with marijuana.

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Alan: The, first slide, is about, you know, scheduling marijuana from Schedule 1 to Reschedule to Schedule 3, the impact it has on the industry,

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Alan: The positive part of it, the pramatic part of it, and how federal law has affected everything.

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Alan: The first slide there talks about… I’ll back up one thing. Back on May 16th of 2024,

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Alan: the Justice Department formally brought apart a petition to regulate the move marijuana to Schedule 1 to Schedule 3. Back on December 18th of last year, President Trump

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Alan: Give an executive order, to the DOJ to move forward with that transition.

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Alan: the…

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Alan: negative or plus about this is, even though President Trump gave an executive order to move forward, all he did was make the suggestion to move forward. So…

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Alan: really nothing has really transpired right now. Every department, Department of Justice, Homeland Security, you name it, IRS, all these departments have little different readings on how they classify marijuana.

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Alan: The biggest plus about this is, until this is finalized, marijuana will remain in Schedule 1 under the DOT complete rulemaking. So, it doesn’t change anything. Does it make it legal?

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Alan: on the federal side of it, so without the, you know, unless you’ve got a FDA-approved prescription right now, which is only a couple of them out there, it remains a legal drug to use.

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Alan: Let’s turn the page, please.

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Lydia Wommack: Sure, I’m actually gonna… let me try and get out of this share real quick, because it’s… and reshare it, because it’s giving me a little funny message, let’s see.

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Lydia Wommack: We’re gonna go to… You know that technology, y’all?

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Lydia Wommack: Okay.

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Mark Rhea: while we’re waiting, I didn’t get an opportunity to give a good intro to Alan. He’s been… he’s got 25 years of experience in the drug and alcohol testing business.

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Mark Rhea: He’s been a speaker at the TXTA, Texas Trucking Association, Texas Aggregate and Concrete Association, Texas Towing, and has done several webinars and information exchange activities on impairment, drug testing. And I might add, he’s a letterman, football letterman, from the

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Mark Rhea: TCU Horned Frog, so we’re really glad to have him here today.

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Alan: Thank you. Go Frogs. When in doubt, say Go Frogs.

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Alan: The, the…

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Mark Rhea: Just to backtrack, just to backtrack, the fact is, the president has put out a transition order

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Mark Rhea: To move marijuana from Schedule 1 and Schedule 3, but that has not yet happened.

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Alan: That’s correct. That’s correct. Correct. The biggest benefits, and we’ll go the pros and cons of both, the biggest benefits of

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Alan: The pros for having, marijuana through classification. Schedule 3 is… is really is the medical use. Right now, under Schedule 1,

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Alan: there’s really… there’s so many… there’s so many different guidelines you have to go through to get medical approval for… for use for different type of physical problems you might have with you, from arthritis to cancer treatment, whatever. So, moving marijuana…

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Alan: closer to Schedule 3, helps in that situation.

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Alan: The problem we run into, again, from the marijuana part of it is, is that

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Alan: The research on it has been so regulated that it’s a problem with making sure that,

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Alan: cannabis, and that’s the problem. It’s two different types of marijuana. Cannabis and hemp, and they classify it differently. So, cannabis is a part of marijuana, where hemp, is part of the stem and everything.

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Alan: How the rulings affect us, again.

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Alan: From the DOT side and the FMCSA side, marijuana is still prohibitive. It’s still a drug that cannot be removed from the DOT paneling. It’s still a positive part of it. Next slide, please.

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Alan: And we discussed this one, so let’s move on to the next one, please.

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Alan: Okay.

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Alan: The concern they run into is that,

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Alan: Right now, under the DOT guidelines, only drugs that are Schedule 1 and… Schedule 1 and 2 are tested under the DOT guidelines that your… your panel, you see, the 10 panel you see.

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Alan: The concern that’s popped up is, okay, what happens if…

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Alan: we move it there without any classification. Technically, you could get a situation where that the federal government Will…

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Alan: not test marijuana. I don’t think that’s gonna happen.

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Alan: the American Trucking Association, the NTUSB, is 100% behind stealth-stained marijuana as a

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Alan: Schedule 1, even though it could move to Schedule 3.

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Alan: And the reason being, again, the safety of the trucking industry.

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Alan: A couple things that… that…

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Alan: that will make the, I’ll just pause, I lost my place here. Couple things that makes Schedule 1 different from Schedule 3 is, right now,

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Alan: Kennedy, marijuana, I mean, excuse me, Tylenol with codeine. There’s some steroids that are part of Schedule 1 that will… that are move… that are now in Schedule 3. So again, putting in the classification of Schedule 3 will help on the research side of it.

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Alan: The, next slide, please. Go to 4, please.

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Mark Rhea: You know, you talk about that being an industry alarm. I think that’s a motoring public alarm, isn’t it?

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Alan: Yes, it is. The problem that we’re seeing in industry is that

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Alan: we have companies that have DOT and non-DOT customers, clients, that on the DOT side, obviously, they think, well, because it’s a… I’ve got a medical reason, I’ve got a medical friction, that I can… I can use the marijuana. On the non-DOT side.

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Alan: I have customers that actually have removed marijuana from their testing because of the concern about that part of the medical side of it. But again, you look at all the states across the country.

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Alan: I think there’s 24 plus,

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Alan: District Columbia have some type of legalized marijuana for recreational… for use at certain levels. That doesn’t make it legal for the industry. Just because a state has… might say, okay, you can have so much marijuana in your possession.

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Alan: Good example, you go to Colorado, and you do something up there, you come back to Texas, and it’s illegal in Texas, you get pulled over in Texas, you’re, you’re in trouble.

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Alan: even if you work for a company that you… you’re in Colorado for the vacation and came back to Texas, you’re non-DOT, and you’re tested, and you’re positive for marijuana, and Texas is a no-call state for firing, so you still can be fired for using marijuana. So, there’s a lot of… there’s a lot of,

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Alan: complications regarding changing from… and misunderstanding, changing from Schedule 1 to Schedule 3. But the biggest potential, again, was back to this right here, is the recognized potential medical use and the lower risk of it. There are studies out there

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Alan: that have shown that, and everybody has a study, I guess, but they’re shown that use of… long-term use of marijuana does have some effect on the individual.

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Alan: So, again, the… I know even though marijuana was

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Alan: officially put as a illegal drug back in 1970. We’re still having this issue nowadays on what can be done about it to help it.

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Alan: The… the biggest thing on the research side for… for Schedule 3 is… is that right now, there is no benefits for

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Alan: for,

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Alan: research, there’s no benefits for selling it, as a business, so this kind of… if it does go into effect, and it goes to Schedule 3, then, again, open those regulations, and then from the tax side of it, for people who sell it,

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Alan: There’s some… obviously some benefits to it.

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Alan: Next slide, please.

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Alan: Let me get to my next slide here.

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Alan: Another slide, please. We’re… I’ve talked ahead of myself on this schedule here. Right, the panel… that next one, please.

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Lydia Wommack: Okay.

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Alan: Right, okay, right there. Again, let’s discuss in the summary everything before we move on, is that the use of marijuana for… is a tremendous value that the industry sees for medicine, for marijuana, for research, for developing, for medical reasons.

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Alan: For industry-wise, it has no effect on us, because

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Alan: on the DOT side, because the FMCSA has not changed the rules, or the DOT has not changed the rules, so impact of a driver’s fitness, hasn’t changed because it’s still illegal.

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Alan: Again, from the research part of it, it opens avenues for, studies, for financial services.

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Alan: But again, from the DOT side, it’s a relay with us, because it’s illegal.

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Alan: Again, as I discussed a while ago, federal law. Federal law over trumps state law across the nation. So again, please tell your drivers that they… if they think that going from Schedule 1 to Schedule 3 will open up that guideline, it will not.

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Alan: The DOT rules have not been… have not changed. The scheduling has…

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Alan: on that part of it will not have effect unless, I guess, unless the government comes along and the DOT or DEA changes the rules where it can be done.

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Alan: Highway safety, There is concern about the benefits of it because of,

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Alan: that study I mentioned a while ago of a long-term effect to how marijuana affects individuals on the DLT side, it should not have any effect, because it’s going to Schedule III, because it’s still illegal to do it.

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Alan: Next slide, please.

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Alan: The problem we run into, again, about the federal law is, and I’m kind of finishing up on this when I go on to the clearinghouse, is that marijuana,

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Alan: has so… so many unknowns. It’s… again, it’s from that point of view that we’re having to research it and do some additional studies on it.

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Alan: The THC is still prohibitive in all the safety-sensitive drugs that we see across the country. If they decide to carve it out and make it a non-sensitive drug, then we’ll go from there. Next page, please.

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Lydia Wommack: I think one of the things we hear often in boot camp, Alan, is a lot of confusion amongst drivers, and you hit the nail on the head in this previous slide about, you know, communicating. It is not legal federally. This is still something that, you know, you have to observe regardless of state laws.

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Lydia Wommack: or misinformation, and we hear a lot about, especially when it comes to CBD, misinformation about, you know.

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Lydia Wommack: is it… is it monitored? Is there THC in it? Is there not? And, so…

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Lydia Wommack: Yeah, I think if there’s anything in this section we can drive home, at least from where I’m sitting, it’s communication and communication and communication about what the laws are in place today, because, boy, it trips people up easily. You’ve seen it, Mark.

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Mark Rhea: I would add to that the lack of communication allows your drivers to make their own interpretation, which is very dangerous. And again.

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Mark Rhea: with all respect, it looks like it might change at some point in time, but it hasn’t changed yet, so I would… you know, we’ve got a large group listening in today.

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Mark Rhea: I would challenge you, it’s your responsibility to communicate very clearly and precisely with your drivers

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Mark Rhea: What is current as opposed to what might happen in the future?

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Lydia Wommack: Right.

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Lydia Wommack: Not what could be, but what is.

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Alan: Yeah, one of the… I just saw a question pop up regarding equipment operators.

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Mark Rhea: Yup.

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Alan: under the… and I’ll answer that question right quick here now, is, the equipment operator depends on, again, the

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Alan: what their position is under that. How the DOT guidelines regarding anybody that does drug testing is, you have to be able to

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Alan: It’s a safety sense position. You have to be on the highways. If you have an individual that’s on private property, never gets onto the highway, it’s your company decision whether you drug test them or not.

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Alan: On a highway, or any situation you’re moving a motor vehicle over 26,000 pounds in a… 26 and 1 pound, then it’s under

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Alan: the FDI, under the DOT guidelines. So, equipment operator, it depends on

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Alan: If it’s a grader that does highways, yes. You know, if it’s a grader that does proper property and doesn’t do anything, never gets onto the highway, now again, that operator has to drive that truck.

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Alan: that greater to a site, then yes, they’re in the DOT guidelines. But again, if you’re a…

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Mark Rhea: A pallet jack operator, though, that stays within a warehouse would not be.

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Alan: Correct.

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Mark Rhea: Forklifter driver, yeah.

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Alan: That… that’s strictly under your… the company’s guidelines. Do you have a policy? And again, you… obviously, I think most everybody in today’s role has that. Your… your policies really should… your DOT and non-DOT should…

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Alan: pretty well be close to the same thing, and the reason being is you don’t want to get in a situation that one day you decide to… that forkrift driver you know has a commercial driver’s license and has never used it. If he’s in your system and has a commercial driver’s license.

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Alan: You really need to have the same program for both of them, just protect yourself. If you decide, okay, I want to put him behind the wheel that day to

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Alan: we’re shorthanded. I want to have him drive somewhere. Well, that’s a situation where you put yourself at risk if he’s not in your program, and he’s not under those same guidelines you put for the DOT side.

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Alan: the… what I… I guess my next step and recommendation would be is that there’s so many…

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Alan: different agencies out there, as I mentioned earlier, the DEA, the DOT, HHS,

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Alan: you just gotta watch everything nowadays, and look for if they do change this. I don’t think there’s gonna be a lot… again, as we mentioned earlier.

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Alan: there’s not going to be a quick change for this, and the reason being is that there’s so many people in the industry 100% against this. So, from your point of view as a safety director, or as the owner of a company.

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Alan: You need to be able to, look at your program, maintain it, do your due diligence,

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Alan: and work in a situation that almost, you have to say, zero tolerance again. I know there’s companies there that… that give,

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Alan: drivers or people second chance, and that’s fine. But if you decide to do that, you’ve got to use the safety professionals that… protocol that put them into a program where they’re tested based on their usage. So again, from the point of view is that I want to make it very clear

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Alan: to your drivers, nothing has changed. We’re gonna train our supervisors, we’re gonna inform our DOT drivers that the remaining still is an illegal drug.

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Alan: And again.

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Alan: federal law over… overrules state law. Just because of California, or New York, or Colorado, or somebody might say it’s okay for recreational, it’s not okay on the federal level.

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Alan: The next slide, let’s go all the way to… keep going, please. I’ve talked ahead of my slides here, there. The clearinghouse.

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Alan: This is where a lot of folks… I want to make sure people understand the clearinghouse point of view of it, is that the clearinghouse, first off.

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Alan: there’s no change in the clearinghouse. The clearinghouse is such an important part of your business and industry-wise. It’s a place where everybody should put,

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Alan: anytime a person is, again, let’s just do the steps here. You’ve got to register, the driver has to register, the company has the driver, has to register,

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Alan: And you’ve got to deal with the reporting process where that… the individual

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Alan: or the company has to report, any problems with that. So, again, it’s a situation where the clearinghouse

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Alan: You can go to the clearinghouse anytime, and you’re… and…

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Alan: The problem we had in the past was drivers would be positive, get a positive test, quit that job, and go to another company, and it wouldn’t be a… it couldn’t find anywhere in the system where that

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Alan: they ever was positive for a drug test. On the clearinghouse, everybody has to return, has to use the clearinghouse. So it’s important for you to, again, use the clearinghouse to register your drivers, and you have to report to that. Next slide, please.

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Alan: Again, Here’s how it works here, is that the…

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Alan: the driver, the CDL, or CLP, are subject to the drug testing. Employers,

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Alan: like CMI drug testing, we have to go through the system and register MRIOs, SAPs, they have to do that, because again, the process of… if you’ve got a driver that has a second chance and has to go to, through a testing program and return duty program, then… then you’re… you’re…

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Alan: third-party administrator like CMI will help you do that for you, responsible for helping you do that for you. So again, the clearinghouse is a total process of verification that your driver has never had a positive drug test. If he has, then it better be in that system. Next slide, please.

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Alan: The importance of the clearinghouse, Again, as I mentioned earlier.

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Alan: the companies have to… employers and MROs have to report and verify a positive drug test or a refusal to test through Clinic Clearinghouse within 3 days. Again, that’s very important, because

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Alan: If you tell the driver no, you fail the test, and he goes to another company the next day, takes another drug test, and doesn’t fill that one, then this is why this is so important. You gotta get, like, 3 days by federal law.

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Alan: The driver has to do electronic consent, so that you can do his query on his past history of what he’s done.

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Alan: The queries, must be run on all pre-employments, and also on an annual basis. So again.

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Alan: It catches a situation during the year that your driver

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Alan: had a positive drug test, and for some reason you didn’t know about it, when you run that annual query each year, that will pop up. I’m not sure why that situation would pop up if you’re using a third-party administrator. Only situation, I guess, that could happen would be is that you’re

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Alan: you’re, monitoring yourself. You don’t use anybody. You use your own random program. You, the driver, for some reason, was able to avoid you finding out he had drugged him.

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Alan: A positive drug test, so running the annual query, which is required by law, all pre-employment annuals, then that would catch that situation.

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Alan: The, again, the employer, return to duty. That’s extremely important to use the clearinghouse, because again.

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Alan: your driver will never be able to… that failed that first test. If he goes through the process, and it is clear, and after so many tests, has negative test results.

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Alan: If you don’t use the clearinghouse, it’ll never clear him. It was still showing that he has a positive test result, and hasn’t done anything to…

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Alan: rectify the mistake he made. So again, you can hire somebody from another company that was let go because they have a positive drug test, but you have to still, before you hire them and put them in a safety system position, you have to, again.

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Alan: tell… they have to go through the Return to Duty program and pass the Return to Duty test. That’s why it’s so important to do that.

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Alan: On the driver’s side of it is, you know, they have access to the records all the time, they can request their history, so that’s why they need to register. Again.

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Alan: The last comment is drivers who operate commercial vehicles. Again, back to that… that, equipment operator. That equipment miter operator might

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Alan: Always be on private property, but if he drives that commercial property, that commercial

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Alan: grader, or whatever, backhoe, whatever you might have, to a… to a property that drives on the highway, then he’s subject to the DOT. So, from that point, again,

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Alan: you have to be able to report to the clearinghouse if he ever has a positive test or refuses a test. Again, the same thing under the DOT guidelines.

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Alan: If you refuse the test, it’s the same thing as a positive test. So, and that has to be reported by you within 3 days.

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Alan: looking ahead, the next page here, looking ahead, I just don’t think there’s going to be a situation right now in the near future of the FMCSA or DOT

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Alan: retaining marijuana, changing from… even though his schedule goes to Schedule 3, changing in the program. So you need to be able to, again.

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Alan: monitor the system, and monitor your… and work with your… I guess the best thing would say I work with your third-party administrator, a company like CMI, that is aware of what’s going on on a daily basis, and can also change is being made to that situation there.

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Alan: I don’t think the guidelines are going to change anything.

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Alan: And from that point, the next slide is… I have one more slide I didn’t put there to talk about is every state is different, so I saw there’s

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Alan: there’s individuals all across the state, so you need to be aware of your state’s situation. As I mentioned earlier, I’m in Fort Worth, Texas. Texas has not changed the guidelines. It’s an illegal drug, as I mentioned earlier. You need to be aware that

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Alan: and remind your drivers that if they… again, I mentioned this earlier, if they go on vacation and go to a state that… where recreational marijuana is legal by state law, it means nothing to the state of Texas.

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Alan: Texas, you cross that border, come back to Texas, you’re driving, you stop for some reason, you’ve got marijuana with you, or you go to your… you could be… you could be arrested based on the amount you have with you. Or secondly is, you go back to your job.

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Alan: And you’re tested for, either DLT or non-DOT. You’re… and you’re positive.

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Alan: on the DOT side, it’s federal law. On Texas side, unless your company has a situation where they tolerate or second chance of marijuana, Texas has the right to fire you, and so the employer because of this. So, again, I, I just, again.

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Alan: Raffirm to all your drivers, again, Federal laws over state law.

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Alan: And so, you just need to be aware of the situation that recreational marijuana is something you need to avoid unless you’ve got a prescription. Again, back to that thing, even if you have a prescription.

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Alan: for marijuana, it does not trump federal law. I’ve had customers that say, well, my employer has… my employee has a prescription because of

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Alan: arthritis, or something that he might have, or for… it helps with… I heard it helps with nausea for people taking, chemo. I’m not opposed to that, I’m just saying, unfortunately, under federal law.

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Alan: That isn’t given the right to drive a safety-sensitive position, drive a vehicle on federal… on highways just because he has a subscription for it. So again.

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Alan: You need to be aware, you don’t want your situation where, again, you’re in a lawsuit because your driver

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Alan: has a prescription for marijuana, because of… because, again, he’s… unfortunately, he might be under cancer treatment and chemo or something, and he uses it for that situation. It does not affect how federal law rules it, and it does not affect you being in a lawsuit. So, from that point,

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Alan: I’ll open up for questions for you.

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Lydia Wommack: Yeah, we don’t want somebody to think they’re doing the right thing, think they’re doing something legally, and have it impact both them safe on the roads, safe with your equipment, and an accident for your company.

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Alan: Yeah, so I… I want to mention here, I just know, I know Texas, because I’m here in Fort Worth, I’m very familiar with it. I know they’re… every state is a little different on… on the… on the non-DOT side, where I know we’re talking about DOT,

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Alan: But again, just across the board, all your employees, the DOT or non-DOT, needs to be aware that that could have effect on them.

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Lydia Wommack: We do have some questions in chat, if you have a few minutes.

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Alan: Yes.

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Lydia Wommack: So, first, from Rhonda Kelly, is there any tentative date for movement from Schedule 1 to Schedule 3?

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Alan: Forever, I lost you for a second there. Repeat that, please.

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Lydia Wommack: Is there a tentative date yet for the movement?

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Alan: No, no.

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Lydia Wommack: Schedule 1 to 3.

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Alan: No, there’s not. I have not seen anything in any of my documentation, either. We looked through 5 or 6 different programs that we have that update. There’s not one they’ll have. I just don’t…

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Alan: Things move real slow, and so, I just don’t see it happening. I don’t… I don’t have no date, I’m sorry.

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Lydia Wommack: Okay, so I think, Rana, that means watch… watch for us, watch, obviously, you know, FMCSA, DOT, watch there, and watch CMI, because you know they will be the first to shout it out as soon as they catch wind about that. Yeah.

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Mark Rhea: I got a quick follow-up on that question, which is a very good question. We don’t know when. Let’s assume something does happen.

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Mark Rhea: how will that be communicated to the industry? Will that go through the states, or would that… how… how will they communicate? Such a major thing.

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Alan: Well, I think that the… Again, going from schedule, 1 to Schedule III,

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Alan: could be approved and have zero effect on industry. What will happen will be, is that the

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Alan: again, the FMCSA or the DEA are… they’re gonna, they’re gonna have to, change their, their so-called wording so that

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Alan: Again, right now, only drugs that I’m aware of are on Schedule 1 and 2 are tested on the DOT panel, so they’ll have to expand that to include some drugs in

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Alan: on the… for Schedule III,

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Alan: I would think that the statewide is not going to do a thing.

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Alan: regarding that. I mean, obviously, they’ll announce it, but from the DOT side, I think it’s probably going to be done through, most likely, your third-party administrators will have the first ones that will notify you. I mean, there’ll be a notification going out

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Alan: A big notification that goes out from the FMCSA that it’s been approved as Schedule III, has no effect on drug testing.

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Alan: or it has some change, it might be. But again, I think that probably your best bet would be, the quickest way would be, is through your third-party administrator company like CMI.

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Lydia Wommack: Very good.

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Lydia Wommack: There was another question in chat from Justin. If a driver gets a positive test, has anything changed on that in the last year?

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Alan: No, no. He’s still… the options are, if your driver gets a positive test, you… based on your company policy.

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Alan: Zero tolerance, he’s gone, or she or she’s gone. Or second chances, then you’ve got to work with a substance abuse professional, and they’ll do the program based on

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Alan: Bill, the conversation they had with the person who’s positive, based on their tendencies.

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Alan: They’ll be… most likely are taking, 6 tests over the next 12 months, and after that.

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Alan: period is down, they’ll take their last test, return to duty. If they, all these tests they take during the next 12 months are negative, then you can put them back into a safety sensitive position. So, nothing has changed.

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Lydia Wommack: Okay, wonderful. I don’t see any other ques… oh, Jane got a question in right under the wire there. Jane asks, I’d like to clarify, if a driver had a positive drug test, is there a chance to dispute the result if the medication was prescribed to them? If so, how can it be challenged?

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Alan: Okay, what that is up to is that your… your medical… every… that’s the plus to having a third-party administrator. Every, third-party administrator, like CMI, has medical review officers. The… the first process will be is that the… the…

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Alan: On every positive test.

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Alan: the medical review officer will reach out to the driver. Obviously, if it’s marijuana or cocaine or something that’s a situation that is pretty clear-cut, then they’ll still reach out to them and ask them a couple of questions about it.

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Alan: During that part there, there’s two things you can do, is every DOT has

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Alan: two specimens taken at that time. So the driver can first challenge the test result by saying, I want that second specimen tested. So they would… they have to send it to a different laboratory, and it’s tested.

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Alan: The results come back.

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Alan: positive. So, again, the MRI, MRI or mental grief officer is going to reach out to the driver. The driver is going to explain to the

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Alan: MRO, okay, I’ve got a prescription for this.

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Alan: Again, based on the type of medication it is, the MRO can’t overturn that positive test or make it a non-negative, based on what it is. But there’s certain medications, obviously,

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Alan: you shouldn’t be driving under certain… taking that medication. So, every medication is different, but yes, the MRO can, if you have a prescription.

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Alan: then it’s… it can be turned over to make it non-negative. The… the negative about that situation of prescriptions is it’s gotta be in their name. I… I know I’ve got friends that… and…

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Alan: Well, I probably have two. My wife has been sick, and I’m sick, and I took her antibiotic pill by mistake, or I took the pill, or my wife’s… or arthritis, and I’m feeling bad, and I want to take

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Alan: hydrocodone for feeling bad. If the subscription is not in your name, it’s the same thing as a positive test drill. So that’s why it’s so important, again, tell your drivers

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Alan: They cannot take anybody else’s medication.

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Alan: Because it’s got to be in their name, or it’s a positive test drill, and it cannot be overturned. So that’s another part of the process of working with an MRI. He can overturn it.

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Alan: But it’s got to be in your name, and he’s got to be justification for it, and you’ve taken it what it’s supposed to be, but again, certain drugs still cannot be taken.

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Alan: And, and drive on the highways under DOT guidelines.

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Lydia Wommack: Got it. There was a follow-up question to that one. Who’s responsible for fighting it? Is that the company’s responsibility, or the driver, or both?

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Alan: It depends on the…

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Alan: your policy. Obviously, the… the… I know a majority of my companies have a situation where that, if the driver wants to fight

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Alan: the test result, then they’re going to pick up the tab for the second result, the second test, the split specimen. The part of the MRO and the substance abuse professionals getting involved, again, that’s up to the company. I have companies that will

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Alan: That will pay for every test they take. I mean, it could be 6 of them, or it could be… could be 12 of them over, the next…

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Alan: 12 months. It depends on the substance abuse professional’s responsibility on how he thinks, how bad. I’ve dealt with companies that

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Alan: test drivers for… for 2 weeks, every 2 weeks, for 5… 5 months. I mean, that gets very expensive. So, it’s… again, it… you need to… you need to have in your policy

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Alan: And that’s something the third-party administrator can help you with. Your policy says how you want to dictate if there’s a positive test result, and you’re giving them a second chance. So again, majority of my customers, the driver pays for it out of their pocket for this additional testing.

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Alan: That’s it. It’s just the way it’s been across industry. I mean, there are some out there that pick up the… that will pay for the additional testing, but majority of them, the… the driver pays for the additional testing. Especially that one test where there’s a split, we’ll have to send the… send the specimen to a different laboratory.

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Alan: It gets pretty expensive, and so they’ll… they’ll make the driver pay for it.

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Lydia Wommack: Okay. Well, I heard the P word, policy, and anytime I hear that, that lights my ears up, because we know from a legal perspective.

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Lydia Wommack: you should all… if you’re going to have a policy, you should always enforce it consistently every time. If you are not going to do that, don’t have the policy. So, I know that’s not quite what we were saying here, but still, it always lights up for me, and it’s a reminder, due diligence.

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Alan: Yeah, a third-party administrator, will help you with your policy, and that’s a key part of it. I, again.

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Alan: We all know companies out there that do this, minister themselves, and do the DOT guidelines themselves, do the random testing themselves, do the policy themselves.

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Alan: again, from the side of the third-party administrative side, is that… that we’ve done this before, we do… we know what we’re doing regarding the policies, regarding the random selection. You can never be accused of

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Alan: picking on somebody because it’s out of the company’s hand, it’s in a third-party administrator’s hand. They do the selection, and it’s a blind selection where that part of it is. So, a policy is the key from everything we talked about today from the DOT and non-DOT side.

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Alan: It does not matter, again, back to whether marijuana is going to go from Schedule 1 to clarification to Schedule 3. It’s what the DOT, FMCSA says.

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Alan: And that’s what your paws should… would back up. It should follow the DOT guidelines, and that… that’s your safest… that’s your… that’s your safest bet to protect yourself from… from… from lawsuits that… so you can protect… protect yourself.

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Lydia Wommack: Out of curiosity, do we… do you see, and this is for everyone in chat, too, do you see misunderstandings around marijuana, THC, you know, with any particular generation? Is this something that we’re seeing with… as our Gen Zs come into the driver’s seat? Are we getting more issues there?

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Alan: Well, what I… again, what I’ve been…

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Alan: talking to my military doctors about it, and what I see, I read in the industry, is that,

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Alan: that, the new marijuana, I want to say the old marijuana, the new marijuana, is a lot stronger.

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Alan: and there are also so many synthetic drugs out there that they’re… that they’re putting together that, is so much more potent. I… I guess the… I guess the plus would be from the go to Schedule 3 is there would be maybe additional regulations. I mean, you… you… right now, you buy,

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Alan: marijuana gummies, or whatever you might… they call them to sell. There’s no regulations out there. I mean, there are companies out there that will probably say, okay, this is our guidelines, this is what the percentage is, and here’s how it works. But there’s a lot of companies out there that you have no clue that, from A to B,

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Alan: what the strength of that gummy… gummy is. So, from that point.

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Alan: You know, you really need to, protect yourself and, again.

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Alan: I just think it’s a lot stronger now, all the medications that… the marijuana, the synthetic side of it, the drugs, versus were in the past. So again,

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Alan: Is there any difference between the old and the pa… the old generation new? I…

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Alan: The difference is the strength of the… the strength of the drug. That’s the difference.

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Mark Rhea: I would chime in. Yes, I think there’s a lot of misunderstanding.

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Mark Rhea: with our drivers on this issue, where there is no misunderstanding is with our plaintiff’s attorneys. I can assure you, they know these rules and regulations and laws inside and out, and are actively looking for violations when they get involved in a lawsuit. I can tell you that for a fact.

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Alan: Yeah, we have a… I’ve belonged to a couple associations that… we have a… we’re very fortunate to have some attorneys that are involved that are part of the association, speak on a regular basis, and…

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Alan: All they bring up, again, is consistency. You’re doing… your pause is the same for everybody. You can’t… you know, things happen. Unfortunately, the…

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Alan: Terrible things do happen. And you… all you do is your due diligence to say, okay, here’s what we did… we’re consistent across the board, we did what we’re supposed to do, and it still things go bad.

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Alan: So, and that’s the only way you can protect yourself, is be consistent with your drivers, your policy, and do your due diligence on monitoring

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Alan: How the drug’s affected, but again.

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Alan: Again, I could be 100% wrong. I just don’t see, even though marijuana being classified from 1 to 3 will have any effect on the, the DOT FMCSA. It’s just gonna… may take some time to…

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Alan: Guillen…

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Alan: rewrite some guidelines, but they’re not gonna make any changes until those guidelines are rewritten so they protect the industry. I just don’t see it happening.

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Lydia Wommack: Well, Alan, thank you so much. Appreciate having you today. You know, since you were just talking about consistency, I always have to put in a plug, too, that, you know, we… we believe that communication is key, and consistent communication, consistent application is critical, because

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Lydia Wommack: your greatest asset and your greatest liability is the behavior of your employees, of your drivers. You can only…

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Lydia Wommack: do so much, and then it’s up to whether or not they’re going to do what they’re supposed to do based on, you know, laws, regulations, policy, expectations. So, reinforce, reinforce, don’t rely on the yard to tell them how it really is. You know, work with CMI to make sure that

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Lydia Wommack: the experts are applying that policy consistently and taking care of those things and watching those regulations. Y’all do a great job. So that’s my little plug for today.

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Lydia Wommack: Alan, thank you. For anyone attending, if you are interested in, receiving a trial to access INFINITI, we have reasonable suspicion training, we have all sorts of training.

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Lydia Wommack: Around this, and you can upload your own custom content. You could upload your policies.

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Lydia Wommack: And get signed-off acknowledgements from every driver. If you would like to see more, let us know. Be glad to give you access. Typically, the trial’s 30 days, but, you know, if you just want to pop in and look around and ask some questions, you’re welcome to do that, too.

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Lydia Wommack: And again, for anyone who wants to have a certificate of attending today for their NATME points, if you want to just pop it into chat or email us afterwards, we can get you hooked up.

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Lydia Wommack: Alan, anything, any parting words for us?

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Alan: No, ma’am, no, thank you. I appreciate the opportunity. It’s a subject that’s not going to change. Like I said, it’s started back in the 70s, and it’s… we’re still… how many years later, we’re still trying to figure it out. So,

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Alan: I don’t think marijuana is going to be part of the drug testing program, the approval part of it, anytime in the future. But anyway, thank you.

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Lydia Wommack: Thank you very much, we appreciate you, everyone.

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Mark Rhea: Yeah, Lidi, I would just make a quick comment. If… after listening to Alan’s presentation, and I was, you know.

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Mark Rhea: I would absolutely get something out there to my drivers to clarify exactly where we are with this, Schedule 1 to Schedule 3 situation, and I would do that on INFINITI’s system as custom content, or somehow, someway.

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Mark Rhea: This is… this is a need for a responsible carrier to communicate very clearly and precisely where we are on this issue.

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Mark Rhea: I know we’ve got, in the system, you’ve got reasonable suspicion, you’ve got, you know, all kinds of marijuana use, CBDs, but this is… this is something that needs to be very clearly communicated.

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Lydia Wommack: Yes, no doubt.

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Lydia Wommack: All right, thank you all. Thank you, Mark. Thank you, Alan. Everyone have a blessed day.

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Mark Rhea: Thank you, Alan. Thank you for what you do for our industry, Alan. Send him a thank you on the chat.

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Mark Rhea: Send him a thank you on the chat. It’s good to have professionals like Alan in our industry.

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Mark Rhea: Trying to make this impaired driving issue improve. Thank you very much.