Webinar Replay #83: Changes Coming to FMCSA CSA-SMS Methodology

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Steve Kessler: Good morning, everyone welcome to the INFINITI Fast Forward Webinar Series on this beautiful February day.

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Steve Kessler: I appreciate you all taking some time out to join us this morning.

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Steve Kessler: My name’s Steve Kessler, and I’ll be the host for the program today.

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Steve Kessler: We have

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Steve Kessler: a really important bunch of information to share with you all today we’re going to talk about some proposed safety score changes from FMCSA.

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Steve Kessler: We all love

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Steve Kessler: the CSA program, and I say that with a grain of salt. But I think there’s some changes coming up that could be beneficial to our trucking companies out there. So, we’re going to ask our guests today to kind of walk us through some of these proposed changes. And hopefully, we’ll understand how that’s going to impact us in our business

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Steve Kessler: before we get started introducing our presenters.

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Steve Kessler: I did want to let everybody know we’ve got a large group that’s joined today. We have everyone that’s logged in is muted so we can’t hear you.

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Steve Kessler: So, you have the ability to use the chat box which is in the tray there. If you want to make a comment or communicate with us. You could also use the Q&A. Box. If you have a question that you’d like to pose, we’ll see that here on our end and be able to respond to those.

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Steve Kessler: So, I’m going to go ahead and get started. Also joining us today is our co-host, Mark Rhea.

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Steve Kessler: Mark joins us for most all our webinars. He’s an industry veteran executive from the trucking industry and is a certified director of safety and is involved in a lot of safety initiatives around the country.

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Steve Kessler: So, Mark, what do you think about our topic today?

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Mark Rhea: Well, I’m looking forward to this. We started this program back in 2010. Certainly not a perfect program. But I’m very glad to see that.

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Mark Rhea: there’s some ongoing efforts to make improvements that we’re excited about. As everyone knows, these numbers, these scores are used to make very important decisions by shippers, drivers, plaintiffs, attorneys, and of course, our friends in the insurance industry. So, let’s get started. I’m anxious to see what the changes are.

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Steve Kessler: Great. Hey! Everybody out there, do me a favor. Why don’t you jump on the chat and let us know who you are, where you are and who you’re with that way, we’ll have some idea who’s out there. So while you are all doing that, let me introduce our guest presenter. Today I want to introduce everyone here to Craig. Lack.

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Steve Kessler: Craig is the founder of Carrier Software and also the co-founder of MCIEF, which is the Motor Carrier Insurance Education Foundation.

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Steve Kessler: Craig specializes in dealing with CSA data. He has an extensive background in computer science and data analytics. And he really enjoys developing CSA based solutions for motor carriers, insurance companies and brokers with extensive experience in analyzing CSA data, Craig has helped motor carriers improve their CSA performance and operational efficiency.

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Steve Kessler: Carrier software’s motor carrier solutions provide actionable insights into CSA performance metrics enabling carriers to eliminate basic alerts and improve their risk profile and safety culture

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Steve Kessler: in addition to CSA performance improvement, Craig is well versed in developing innovative truck insurance, marketing and underwriting solutions. These solutions empower insurance agents and providers to quickly find specific motor carriers. They want to insure and more accurately assess risk, optimize underwriting processes and deliver tailored policies.

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Steve Kessler: So, with a deep understanding of the transportation industry. Craig is also focused on the development of predictive crash models, and these models are the basis of carrier software’s current and future solutions. And I should also say that INFINITI Workforce. We utilize

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Steve Kessler: carrier software reporting to help us in our customer service department. They work, use that data to help our clients

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Steve Kessler: decide on the best possible training to be provided. So, we’re big fans of Craig and carrier software. So having said, said that, Craig, I’m going to turn the program over to you, sir.

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Craig Lack: Well, thank you for the gracious introduction, Steve, and we’ll get started here.

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Craig Lack: I’ll just. I’m going to start. I have a lot on the table today.

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Craig Lack: I’m going to go through it’s kind of at a pretty steady pace. If you have questions as I go along, submit a chat so we can be sure your questions get answered.

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Craig Lack: So, Steve already talked about my background.

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Craig Lack: So, what I’m going to go over is the proposed scores.

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Craig Lack: This is what he covered on this chart.

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Craig Lack: FMCSA. Is calling it a new prioritization methodology.

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Craig Lack: They have a foundational document that’s accessible from this link.

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Craig Lack: So, if you want to read it for yourself. You can do that.

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Craig Lack: They’ve published a couple articles in 2023 about it.

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Craig Lack: No, as you know, your CSA performance determines your insurance premiums.

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Craig Lack: So, if you’d like to see how and

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Craig Lack: how insurance looks at your CSA performance, data come renewal time.

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Craig Lack: So, there are no surprises.

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Craig Lack: We’re going to be offering a free insurance analysis report for attending this webinar.

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Craig Lack: I’ll let you know towards the end of the webinar how you can just request your free report.

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Craig Lack: No.

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Craig Lack: Why is FMCSA making this change back in 2015, Congress

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Craig Lack: passed an act to say that the current CSA. Scores were unfair

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Craig Lack: and not doing a very good job at predicting high risk motor carriers.

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Craig Lack: I think everybody on this webinar would agree. There’s something unfair about the current basic score system.

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Craig Lack: They then spent years developing the item response theory model.

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Craig Lack: That model was much better, in my opinion.

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Craig Lack: at identifying high risk carriers. And it was considerably more fair than the basic scores

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Craig Lack: before that model ever got implemented by FMCSA.

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Craig Lack: It got shelved on the premise. It was too complicated for motor carriers and other stakeholders to understand.

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Craig Lack: So, then they were sent back to the drawing board.

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Craig Lack: and they came up with this new system.

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Craig Lack: The good news is this the new scores are going to be we’re going to be talking about today.

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Craig Lack: are

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Craig Lack: it kind of takes the best of both worlds. It must take some of the good things out of the CSA basics.

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Craig Lack: Take some of the good things out of the item. Response 3 models

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Craig Lack: and makes it very, I think, understandable. So, you know how you’re being measured.

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Craig Lack: Now, some of the things that are going to change or that are under the current methodology.

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Craig Lack: It’s going to increase in most cases the number of motor carriers

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Craig Lack: that are being prioritized for intervention.

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Craig Lack: So, more motor carriers will have their have alerts

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Craig Lack: as far as the crash rates go, the new proposed methodology.

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Craig Lack: It will give a higher, better ability to predict crash rates, or relate to crash rates so overall

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Craig Lack: the current methodology finds about 7, you know, 7 of them that have are prioritized for intervention under the new one is 7.8.

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Craig Lack: So, more motor carriers are going to have alerts.

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Craig Lack: but those alerts are going to be more meaningful because of identifying motor carriers at higher risk of crashes.

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Craig Lack: Now your challenge is to how not to be.

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Craig Lack: Those motor carriers have increasing numbers of alerts.

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Craig Lack: And I’ll get into that shortly.

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Craig Lack: This is what I just said. But basically, it’s the

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Craig Lack: plus, change of 3% motor carriers.

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Craig Lack: 3% more motor carriers will be prioritized for intervention.

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Craig Lack: The changes would have a crash rate

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Craig Lack: 10% higher than the current methodology.

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Craig Lack: and that the bottom line is

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Craig Lack: you need to focus on eliminating CSA violations more now than ever.

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Craig Lack: So

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Craig Lack: what is changing the basics. The basic term is being redefined as compliance categories.

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Craig Lack: There’s a big reduction in the number of possible violations

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Craig Lack: as well as the severity points.

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Craig Lack: A couple. Alert thresholds are changing as well as the safety event groups

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Craig Lack: now about this whole implementation plan. FMCSA. Has not provided

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Craig Lack: any date as to when it will go live other than to say, it’s in the coming months.

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Craig Lack: Now, the greater focus on recent violation.

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Craig Lack: It applies to SMS safety measurement, system data, sufficiency to all compliance categories

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Craig Lack: under the basic scoring system it only applied to unsafe driving.

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Craig Lack: So now you must have enough relevant inspections in all the compliance categories

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Craig Lack: to have a score.

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Craig Lack: This will benefit small motor carriers

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Craig Lack: who may not have sufficient relevant inspections.

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Craig Lack: They’re only prioritizing motor carriers with violations cited in the last 12 months

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Craig Lack: to focus enforcement interventions on carriers that have recent safety issues.

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Craig Lack: What this means in practice is, if you can eliminate

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Craig Lack: all your violations from the past 12 months.

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Craig Lack: Any violations older than that will drop off your score

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Craig Lack: no longer will you be penalized

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Craig Lack: for some bad inspections you had, you know, 1314, 1824 months ago.

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Craig Lack: It clears the slate.

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Craig Lack: If you could be clean for 12 months.

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Craig Lack: This is a big incentive to really focus on eliminating violations.

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Mark Rhea: Is that all violation, Craig.

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Craig Lack: Yes, yes, it’s across the it’s across the board. So

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Craig Lack: you need to have like, eliminate all your violations.

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Craig Lack: and then it wipes it all out.

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Craig Lack: Okay, what this means, though, is, if you can eliminate your violations.

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Craig Lack: you can improve your scores dramatically

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Craig Lack: within, you know, within 12 months.

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Craig Lack: Now, as I said, the basics become compliance categories.

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Craig Lack: The 2 major changes are controlled, substance. Basic is merged into unsafe driving.

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Craig Lack: Excuse me. Sorry, vehicle maintenance is split into 2 safety categories. And here’s what it looks like.

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Craig Lack: Excuse me, darn

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Craig Lack: So, control substance is going to be put into unsafe driving

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Craig Lack: and vehicle maintenance now will become both vehicle maintenance, which is the shop type of problem like a cracked frame and things

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Craig Lack: and driver observed the motivation behind this is that they want 2 isolate

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Craig Lack: where the vehicle maintenance problems are coming from

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Craig Lack: to know. Is it the shop, or is it the driver and the driver’s training?

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Craig Lack: So, I think this this delineation will be very beneficial

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Craig Lack: rather than just saying, I have violations.

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Craig Lack: Now, as you know the current basic system, it does say, if a violation from the driver or not.

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Craig Lack: But this is really going to go further at pointing that out.

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Craig Lack: The new vehicle maintenance category

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Craig Lack: for driver observed, is driver violations that should be observed by a driver as part of a pre-trip inspection.

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Craig Lack: or detected by a level 2 walk around roadside inspection.

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Craig Lack: the vehicle maintenance. They’re calling others, which is really the shop or all other violations.

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Craig Lack: Now, in this regard, motor carriers need to reinforce that a thorough pre-trip inspection

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Craig Lack: is key to eliminating these vehicle maintenance driver observed violations.

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Craig Lack: because if the driver can see it.

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Craig Lack: then they should have. They should address the problem.

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Craig Lack: and we have helped many of our truck clients improve the quality of pre-trip inspections

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Craig Lack: which would be particularly beneficial under the new system.

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Craig Lack: The type of vehicle

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Craig Lack: will be used in more compliance, categories, driver fitness. Now

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Craig Lack: we’ll look at the segments. Straight truck versus combination units

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Craig Lack: similar to what unsafe driving and crashes have done in the past.

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Craig Lack: The Hazmat compliance category is going to be

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Craig Lack: segmented into cargo tank carriers and non-cargo tank carriers, and.

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Craig Lack: as the last bullet says, the unsafe driving and crash indicators will continue to use the straight and combination distinction.

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Craig Lack: There’d be no changes to the compliance categories for crash and hours of service.

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Craig Lack: Another change, the alert threshold.

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Craig Lack: The driver fitness, alert threshold is going to go from 80% to 90%, the idea being

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Craig Lack: the FMCSA only wants law enforcement to focus on carriers who have very high driver fitness scores.

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Craig Lack: and so, by raising the threshold you could be at 89%, and you will no longer have an alert for driver fitness.

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Craig Lack: Now, that’s not the objective. You want to be going in the other direction.

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Craig Lack: The utilization factor that’s currently used for unsafe driving is changing the current. SMS has

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Craig Lack: the utilization factor for motor carriers who drive up to 200,000

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Craig Lack: vehicle miles per average power unit.

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Craig Lack: If you recall the average power unit is a weighted average over the past 18 months.

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Craig Lack: Under the new system of raising that limit to 250,000

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Craig Lack: vehicle miles traveled per average power unit.

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Craig Lack: To more accurately reflect carrier data.

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Craig Lack: This should only affect very long-haul interstate motor carriers.

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Craig Lack: I added this slide as a reminder. The crash preventability determination program

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Craig Lack: under the new methodology.

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Craig Lack: It will continue to exclude non-preventable crashes from the crash compliance category

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Craig Lack: and the driver’s pre-employment screening program

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Craig Lack: if you have drivers that say

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Craig Lack: the crash was not my fault.

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Craig Lack: I recommend collecting the supporting documentation and hopefully, a video to submit a data queue insurance carriers look favorably

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Craig Lack: on motor carriers who challenge what they believe are non-preventable crashes.

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Craig Lack: So it’s in your best interest to invest time to pursue that

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Craig Lack: the roadside violations are being reorganized.

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Craig Lack: There’s over 2,000 existing violation codes

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Craig Lack: in the basic scoring system. And that’s going to be reorganized

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Craig Lack: into about a hundred violation groups. So dramatic reduction.

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Craig Lack: and each violation group will include violations with similar behaviors.

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Craig Lack: This prevents multiple violations being cited for very similar underlying problems.

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Craig Lack: The benefit to you and the problem this solves is

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Craig Lack: it should stop the stacking of violations.

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Craig Lack: If you know, under the current system, I’m sure you’ve seen inspections where the officer wrote up

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Craig Lack: inoperable, required lamps 3 times on the trailer for the running lights, or.

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Craig Lack: you know, brake problems, and they wrote it up for each of the each of the 2, 4, 6, 8 wheels on the truck.

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Craig Lack: This will eliminate the officers being able to stack violations. Either you have a break violation, or you don’t.

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Craig Lack: It doesn’t matter how many.

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Craig Lack: Now, the number of roadside inspections in the safety measurement system

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Craig Lack: versus the New Methodology is shown here.

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Craig Lack: You can read for yourself, but some of the big ones are the vehicle. Maintenance is dropping.

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Craig Lack: This is vehicle maintenance for the shop here is dropping from 400 to 15

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Craig Lack: hazmat from 3, 69 to 14

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Craig Lack: on safe driving, and this includes controlled substance

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Craig Lack: is over 59 is dropping to 32.

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Craig Lack: So, you can see how this is going to work.

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Craig Lack: I believe it’s now much clearer than before

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Craig Lack: on how you can work on eliminating CSA compliance, category violations.

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Craig Lack: Now I have a couple charts here showing some showing, showing you some of the examples.

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Craig Lack: This left-hand column is all the lighting driver observed violations.

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Craig Lack: and you can read it for yourself.

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Craig Lack: But what this means is, and

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Craig Lack: if a driver gets cited for any multiple violations like 3 92.3 3 93.1 7, and so forth. All of that added up only counts as one violation

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Craig Lack: in that inspection

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Craig Lack: I have. Here’s an example of failing to secure loads.

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Craig Lack: All these violations are now going to be grouped

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Craig Lack: under one failing to secure load Violation group.

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Craig Lack: And, by the way, these tables are in

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Craig Lack: in the appendix of the prior. The methodology document that I had on the earlier slide.

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Craig Lack: Here’s brakes for Driver observed. Same idea. You’ve got

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Craig Lack: over a dozen break violations are all going to just be counted as one

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Craig Lack: same thing with reflective sheeting. The same idea. Here’s all, you know, 10 or 12, they’re all going to be counted as one.

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Craig Lack: So, if you can wrap your mind around this, it’s a paradigm shift.

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Craig Lack: You must focus on not having a reflective sheeting violation.

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Craig Lack: or you’re either going to have it or not. It’s a yes or no.

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Craig Lack: So, it should probably change how you’re training your drivers

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Craig Lack: next operating while out of service.

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Craig Lack: This has been spread across different basics in the past.

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Craig Lack: And now it’s all being moved under the unsafe driving compliance category.

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Craig Lack: The rationale is that if you’re operating while out of service

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Craig Lack: you shouldn’t be on the road, and that’s an unsafe driving concern.

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Craig Lack: So, these controlled substance ones, the hours of service, the vehicle maintenance, are all going to be moved into the unsafe driving.

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Craig Lack: as I alluded to earlier simplified roadside violation, weights.

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Craig Lack: current violation, severity, weights are from one to 10, as I’m sure you all know.

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Craig Lack: Under the new system it’ll be one or 2 points.

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Craig Lack: all violations in a compliance category, as I’ve shown on the previous charts, will be 1 point.

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Craig Lack: Multiple violations in a single violation category group

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Craig Lack: will can be counted as one violation.

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Craig Lack: except the violation sort of severity will be 2 points if it’s an out of service violation.

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Craig Lack: or a driver disqualifying violation.

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Craig Lack: So now think everything’s 1 except

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Craig Lack: the bottom 2 will be 2 points.

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Craig Lack: This means that your measures, your absolute scores, the measures will be much lower.

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Craig Lack: and the math will be much simpler.

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Craig Lack: Now this is where it gets a little bit more challenging for me to explain. I’ll do my best.

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Craig Lack: but there’s changes to how the percentage ranks are determined.

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Craig Lack: Okay.

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Craig Lack: the problem with the basics course that has been noted for over a decade is if a motor carrier

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Craig Lack: changes from one safety event group to the next. Their scores will jump

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Craig Lack: up or down, depending on the direction of the movement.

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Craig Lack: Under the proposed methodology, FMCSA will use proportionate percentiles

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Craig Lack: to eliminate these large fluctuations in results.

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Craig Lack: Now, what is a proportionate percentile? And I have an example here to try and demonstrate it.

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Craig Lack: It’s going to use the exact number of relevant inspections to assign a percentile to a motor carrier

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Craig Lack: no longer relying on the discrete cutoffs established by the safety event groups.

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Craig Lack: It’s a continuum.

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Craig Lack: Hopefully, this will solve the problem of jumping between safety event groups.

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Craig Lack: Now, here’s my example.

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Craig Lack: This is an example I made up. It’s artificial

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Craig Lack: for an hours-of-Service safety event Group.

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Craig Lack: The number of relevant inspections is shown here.

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Craig Lack: If you have between 3 and 10 inspections, you’d be in safety. Event groups 1, 11 to 20, you’d be in 2 and so forth.

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Craig Lack: So

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Craig Lack: if you have 10 inspections under the current system, and you get one more inspection, you go from Group One to group 2

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Craig Lack: and your hours-of-service basic will jump significantly.

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Craig Lack: Because now your basic measure is being compared to fleets that have better safety performance

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Craig Lack: as you go up in safety event group.

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Craig Lack: The average

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Craig Lack: basic measure scores get lower and lower. So, when you go from here to here. Whatever score you had here

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Craig Lack: is going to become worse on a relative ranking in this group.

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Mark Rhea: Craig, are those annualized inspections.

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Craig Lack: Yeah, the number of relevant inspections has to do with the inspection level.

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Craig Lack: But it’s over. It’s over the past 24 months.

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Mark Rhea: Last 2 years.

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Craig Lack: Yeah.

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Craig Lack: Now, under the new system. If you have no violations, then everything drops off. So

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Craig Lack: then you’d be you’d be clean.

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Craig Lack: So, I’ll try to explain how math works.

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Craig Lack: These are the steps, and then I’ll show you an example, so don’t try and memorize it.

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Craig Lack: But what they’re going to do is oh, here for review. The relevant inspections

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Craig Lack: for drivers is levels 1, 2, 3, and 6 for vehicles. It’s 1, 2, 5, and 6. Just

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Craig Lack: if you forgot what those were.

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Craig Lack: they’re going to look at the truck company’s basic measures

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Craig Lack: as if they’re in the Lower Safety Event group.

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Craig Lack: Let’s see what that rank would be.

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Craig Lack: And then they’re going to look at the same basic measure as if they were in the next Higher Safety Event group.

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Craig Lack: And then they’re going to calculate those percent ranks. That’s step 4 is here.

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Craig Lack: And then they’re going to calculate a weighted average between the 2 ranks.

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Craig Lack: So, if a motor carrier’s number of relevant inspections is halfway between the median

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Craig Lack: relevant inspections for the 2 adjacent safety event groups.

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Craig Lack: They’ll use the average percent.

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Craig Lack: Otherwise, the percentage is proportionate to the number of relevant inspections now on to my example.

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Craig Lack: in this example, hypothetically, this, this carrier has 7

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Craig Lack: hours of service inspections and a measure of point 8.

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Craig Lack: They are at 7 inspections. They’re safe. Event group one.

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Craig Lack: So, the way the program works now is, you say, okay.

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Craig Lack: they’re going to be between Group One and group 2,

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Craig Lack: the average measure in group one

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Craig Lack: is 0 point 5 7 group 2 is 0 point 3 6. So, this is what I was talking about. The average measures in each safety event group get better and better as you go along.

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Craig Lack: So

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Craig Lack: here, so safety event group one. If this motor carrier is at point 8,

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Craig Lack: they’re falling somewhere between. They have 7 relevant, effective somewhere between this 5 and this 14 5 being the medium of the lower group, 14 being the medium of the higher group.

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Craig Lack: The proportionality factor is the ratio where these fit. So here is the difference between, you know, 7 to 5.

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Craig Lack: There’s 2.

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Craig Lack: The distance from 14 to 5

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Craig Lack: is 9. You divide those you get point 2 2.

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Craig Lack: What that’s telling you is with 7 relevant inspections. They’ll be 22% of the way between

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Craig Lack: The Lower Safety Event group, basic score or compliance score and the upper one.

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Craig Lack: So now you calculate what their basic percentage would be if this point 8

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Craig Lack: was part of safety event Group One.

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Craig Lack: And then, if this point 8 was part of safety. Event group 2.

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Craig Lack: That’s what I’m showing here with this equation.

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Craig Lack: If they were in safety. Event Group One.

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Craig Lack: it was the safety of Ramp Group 2 safety of Ramp Group one, they’d be at 77%

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Craig Lack: safety event group 2. If they were in that group, it’d be 87.

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Craig Lack: So you take the difference times 0 point 2 2 and then add it to the 77%

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Craig Lack: of the Lower Safety Event group. And you’re at 79%.

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Craig Lack: So in this case

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Craig Lack: their score would not be based on just safety event group one or safety event group 2,

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Craig Lack: it’s going to be 22% between what their basic percentages would be

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Craig Lack: if they were in group one versus group 2.

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Craig Lack: That’s why it’s called proportionate percentile.

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Craig Lack: The good news is FMCSA. I already did the math.

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Craig Lack: You can log into your portal account and see what your company’s new proposed compliance category scores are.

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Craig Lack: The other good news. Part of this is

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Craig Lack: as a motor carrier gets one more inspection. This 7 becomes 8,

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Craig Lack: 9, 10, and then 11. When this hits 11 no longer. Are you going to jump from

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Craig Lack: this group to that group overnight.

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Craig Lack: It’s going to gradually go from 22%, 2425, etc. And your score will change gradually as you add relevant inspections.

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Craig Lack: Now, what to expect with the new scores.

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Craig Lack: some motor carriers will see small changes in their basic scores.

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Craig Lack: Some will see a significant decrease. Oh, it’s not basic. It’s a

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Craig Lack: we’ll see a significant decrease in their compliance scores.

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Craig Lack: and some will see significant increases over what you currently have.

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Craig Lack: So, regardless of the new changes, understanding your CSA performance and acting is still key.

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Craig Lack: Okay, remember that being right below the threshold is not good enough

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Craig Lack: your goal should be to eliminate all your all your violations.

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Craig Lack: and there are many advantages to this.

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Craig Lack: One is being that you’ll get improved. Insurance costs

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Craig Lack: better. CSA performance can help you gain new customers

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Craig Lack: and safer motor carriers are more profitable. So, there’s a lot of incentives here to take this seriously

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Craig Lack: and make the necessary proactive changes.

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Craig Lack: No, what you can do to prepare.

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Craig Lack: I think I already mentioned this one, but

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Craig Lack: you can log into the portal and view your data.

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Craig Lack: You can follow notices from FMCSA as to when the basic scores

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Craig Lack: will phase out and the new compliance categories will be coming in.

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Craig Lack: And one thing that we have found advantageous for our trucking clients

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Craig Lack: find a 3rd party service to assist with CSA. Performance improvements.

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Craig Lack: An external set of eyes can help. You see the forest through the trees.

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Craig Lack: We’re not bogged down with all the daily firefighting that a motor care must deal with.

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Craig Lack: So, we can actually provide good insights in short order.

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Craig Lack: And we’ve helped many motor carriers just like you from a few power units to over 20,000 power units. So, I’m confident we can help you eliminate CSA violations, improve your performance and create a positive safety culture.

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Craig Lack: All of these will improve your bottom line.

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Craig Lack: Now to the complementary insurance analysis.

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Craig Lack: This is just an image. It’s not intended that you can read it.

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Craig Lack: But if you’d like to see how insurance

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Craig Lack: carriers look at your CSA performance data at renewal time.

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Craig Lack: So, there are no surprises.

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Craig Lack: Ask for your free insurance analysis report for attending this webinar

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Craig Lack: to receive it. Just send your DOT number and company information to info at carrier software.

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Craig Lack: And with that I’m going to open up and say time for questions.

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Steve Kessler: Great Craig. Thank you. We do have some questions here. 1st question is, so will all speeding violations be 1 point, no matter how far over.

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Craig Lack: Yes.

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Steve Kessler: That’s how I understood it, too. So.

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Craig Lack: Either. Yep, either you’re speeding or you’re not.

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Mark Rhea: Or you’re not. So, they’re kind of making. Every speeding violation has the same weight.

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Mark Rhea: and if you’re speeding and get put out of service. It’s 2.

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Craig Lack: Correct.

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Mark Rhea: Gotcha.

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Craig Lack: Yeah.

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Steve Kessler: Here’s another question. Do! Does hours of service and crashes stay on for 24 months?

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Craig Lack: Yes, everything is going to stay on for 24 months.

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Craig Lack: unless you can eliminate your violations in the past 12 months, and there they’re going to be wiped out.

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Steve Kessler: Okay, okay, here’s a comment. If their issue was that they felt the old current methodology wasn’t fair. How does a new methodology that puts more carriers in prioritized status, make things more fair.

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Craig Lack: That’s an excellent question. I’m not sure I’m qualified to answer it.

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Craig Lack: But I think what they’re saying is new. The new methodology

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Craig Lack: is eliminating some of the complaints about the old system.

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Steve Kessler: I would tend to agree with that. I think they’re trying to make this a little bit simpler from the mass standpoint.

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Steve Kessler: taking all the different point values down a little bit. So that’s kind of how I see this makes things a little bit easier to understand.

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Steve Kessler: Here’s another.

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Craig Lack: Before you go. And just one comment on the unsafe. The speed is keeping this in mind.

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Craig Lack: It’s no longer acceptable to tell your drivers who are speeding 15 or more to slow it down. So, it’s a, you know, 11 to 14 or 6 to 10.

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Craig Lack: They must just stop speeding.

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Steve Kessler: You must eliminate that violation completely.

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Craig Lack: Yes.

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Steve Kessler: And I here’s a question I believe has been answered. Will everything be based on a 12-month timeframe now, instead of 24.

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Craig Lack: No, the scores are still based on 24 months.

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Steve Kessler: Right.

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Craig Lack: However, if you don’t have any violations in the last 12 months.

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Craig Lack: anything older than that will be zeroed out.

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Steve Kessler: All right.

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Craig Lack: This should help motor carriers who have worked hard to improve their safety performance over the past year.

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Craig Lack: and yet have some bad events from more than a year ago.

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Steve Kessler: Okay? This interesting question, will there be a vehicle, maintenance, graph or chart that shows what violations fall to. Driver versus company.

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Craig Lack: Yes.

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Craig Lack: I. The prioritization document that was on, I think, like the second or 3rd slide, has tables that show which vehicle maintenance violations are in the shop, and which are on the driver.

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Steve Kessler: Okay, really quick. Somebody’s asking, could you please put up the slide where we need to reach out for our complimentary insurance analysis?

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Steve Kessler: There you go. Yeah, perfect.

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Steve Kessler: Very good.

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Steve Kessler: great information. Let me check to see if there are any other questions that have come in. One thing that I see kind of totally coming out of this. These changes that are coming in are the focus on eliminating violations has to be extreme. I mean, you really need to try to eliminate every possible violation.

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Steve Kessler: So, I think obviously one of the best ways to do that. And this kind of from our side here is training about the different violations becomes very important.

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Steve Kessler: and I wanted to pop up a little poll question here. If you’re interested in how we might be able to help you with training to reduce some of those violations. So, you can respond to the little poll question here also. And I needed to remind everyone that if you’re a certified director of safety under the NATMI program, this webinar does provide a quarter of a point towards recertification.

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Steve Kessler: So please let us know who of you would need a certificate, and we’ll make sure we get those sent out to you.

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Steve Kessler: So, Mark, did you have any other comments or questions.

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Mark Rhea: No, I just. I just want to emphasize that pre-trip inspection becomes a very high priority, and there’s big benefits in

381
00:42:51.770 –> 00:43:02.610
Mark Rhea: training their drivers. Steve, we have a complete suite of CSA pre-trip content that can be available as soon as this afternoon.

382
00:43:02.790 –> 00:43:17.630
Mark Rhea: I don’t think we have any content on proportional percentile calculations quite yet. That’s a little heavy. But the basic Craig, if I’m not mistaken, is a solid pre-trip inspection.

383
00:43:18.320 –> 00:43:21.769
Mark Rhea: can certainly favor the new system.

384
00:43:23.270 –> 00:43:26.580
Craig Lack: Correct, and it must be thorough.

385
00:43:26.790 –> 00:43:33.670
Mark Rhea: Thorough. Yes, any maintenance violation driver related, of course, will be separated. But

386
00:43:34.642 –> 00:43:37.699
Mark Rhea: boy, this is, this is a lot to

387
00:43:37.880 –> 00:43:43.440
Mark Rhea: swallow, and any guess when it might become effective.

388
00:43:45.030 –> 00:43:48.180
Craig Lack: Well, it came out. They announced it in spring of 2023.

389
00:43:48.180 –> 00:43:48.650
Mark Rhea: Yep.

390
00:43:48.650 –> 00:43:51.100
Craig Lack: And then they

391
00:43:52.190 –> 00:44:01.900
Craig Lack: I think it was in the fall of 2023. They said I was at a conference, and somebody from FMCSA. Said, it’s not. It’s not ready yet. They’re waiting for the right time to roll it out.

392
00:44:02.590 –> 00:44:10.859
Craig Lack: And then oh, I guess it was a month or 2 ago, they said, the time is coming near

393
00:44:11.200 –> 00:44:16.340
Craig Lack: my expectation. Unless something changes, it’ll be phased in this year.

394
00:44:16.980 –> 00:44:20.460
Craig Lack: probably not in the 1st quarter. It may be

395
00:44:20.940 –> 00:44:23.159
Craig Lack: typically like in the 3rd quarter.

396
00:44:24.180 –> 00:44:32.000
Craig Lack: something around that time. And I’m hoping they give a grace period where

397
00:44:32.130 –> 00:44:34.880
Craig Lack: both scores will be running in parallel

398
00:44:35.140 –> 00:44:41.380
Craig Lack: before they all of a sudden change your motor carrier’s alerts from the old system to the new system.

399
00:44:44.180 –> 00:44:50.300
Mark Rhea: But the time to exchange this information with your driver staff is now.

400
00:44:50.950 –> 00:44:56.709
Craig Lack: Absolutely, and both on our safety platform

401
00:44:56.960 –> 00:45:01.500
Craig Lack: we compare the new scores and the old scores for our trucking clients.

402
00:45:02.626 –> 00:45:06.920
Craig Lack: So, you can kind of see what it looks like and gradually phase into it.

403
00:45:07.540 –> 00:45:13.369
Craig Lack: You can also, they said, log into the FMCSA portal and start looking at your new scores

404
00:45:13.600 –> 00:45:19.089
Craig Lack: and just wrap your mind around it to see what’s going to happen when they pull the trigger.

405
00:45:21.650 –> 00:45:23.660
Craig Lack: and then you can chart a course

406
00:45:23.870 –> 00:45:29.759
Craig Lack: to make sure your scores will look as good as possible when that the change occurs.

407
00:45:34.070 –> 00:45:40.650
Steve Kessler: Very good. Any other questions out there. Let me check the list here again.

408
00:45:41.210 –> 00:45:49.920
Steve Kessler: Let’s see, says do violations stay on the driver’s record for 3 years. Was there any change with that.

409
00:45:50.780 –> 00:45:53.429
Craig Lack: No, I have not read any changes with that.

410
00:45:57.720 –> 00:46:16.249
Steve Kessler: Here’s a question. I’m not sure I understand it, but it says, was weather conditions considered in comparison within the segments asset based versus owner operators. Number of enforcement jurisdictions. That’s what I’m reading here.

411
00:46:19.650 –> 00:46:28.510
Steve Kessler: I don’t. I don’t. I don’t believe there’s any distinction between asset base or owner operators or

412
00:46:29.090 –> 00:46:32.299
Steve Kessler: company drivers are there? Don’t believe so.

413
00:46:32.300 –> 00:46:37.800
Craig Lack: Not to my knowledge that that they don’t distinguish between them.

414
00:46:40.050 –> 00:46:42.939
Craig Lack: They, you know, both types of drivers have crashes.

415
00:46:43.540 –> 00:46:47.109
Craig Lack: and the Government’s aim is to just eliminate crashes.

416
00:46:49.250 –> 00:46:57.730
Steve Kessler: Here’s says in the New Methodology, will the percentile ranking update monthly? Or will it be an annual change.

417
00:46:59.540 –> 00:47:02.819
Craig Lack: What is going to do? Thank you for that question. Whoever asked it.

418
00:47:03.470 –> 00:47:04.500
Steve Kessler: That’s Jennifer.

419
00:47:04.640 –> 00:47:05.960
Craig Lack: Thank you, Jennifer.

420
00:47:06.950 –> 00:47:09.510
Craig Lack: The percentile ranking.

421
00:47:11.150 –> 00:47:20.980
Craig Lack: When they roll this out, they’re going to calculate. Here, let me go back to that chart here

422
00:47:21.260 –> 00:47:24.460
Craig Lack: on this chart when they rolled it out.

423
00:47:25.030 –> 00:47:33.700
Craig Lack: They’re going to take that point in time to create the baseline that converts measures

424
00:47:34.430 –> 00:47:37.549
Craig Lack: here that converts measures to percentages.

425
00:47:39.170 –> 00:47:42.319
Craig Lack: Okay? So that’s going to be baseline.

426
00:47:43.760 –> 00:47:52.639
Craig Lack: After that baseline is created, your scores will be determined monthly, based on

427
00:47:53.460 –> 00:48:03.260
Craig Lack: the number of relevant inspections you have at that time and pure measure for that compliance category.

428
00:48:04.060 –> 00:48:11.020
Craig Lack: They’re not going to change the baseline, they said, except maybe annually or so, as they see necessary.

429
00:48:11.480 –> 00:48:18.269
Craig Lack: But what this means is, once the baseline is created, your basic percentages

430
00:48:18.440 –> 00:48:22.139
Craig Lack: are not going to fluctuate with your peer group.

431
00:48:24.990 –> 00:48:27.610
Craig Lack: So, this should be a relief for most of you.

432
00:48:28.150 –> 00:48:34.190
Craig Lack: because if you had, if your scores were stable and your peer group improved, you would look worse.

433
00:48:35.200 –> 00:48:37.470
Craig Lack: This should eliminate those phenomena.

434
00:48:39.370 –> 00:48:49.559
Craig Lack: So again, they’re going to create a baseline that converts the measure to a percentage for the median number of inspections here. And here they’re going to stay fixed

435
00:48:49.810 –> 00:48:52.020
Craig Lack: for is that at least annually.

436
00:48:52.420 –> 00:49:00.190
Craig Lack: and then everything after that will be just you, your company sliding between how many relevant inspections you have.

437
00:49:00.820 –> 00:49:05.039
Craig Lack: and then up and then what your resulting basic percentage would be.

438
00:49:08.590 –> 00:49:16.879
Steve Kessler: Very good, Craig. Here’s another question. Will inspections with no violations still benefit your scores?

439
00:49:19.580 –> 00:49:21.120
Steve Kessler: Yes, I think so.

440
00:49:21.500 –> 00:49:24.220
Craig Lack: Yeah, that’s a good, good question.

441
00:49:26.900 –> 00:49:40.339
Craig Lack: It should it? It should benefit your score for hours of service, hours of service driver fitness.

442
00:49:40.690 –> 00:49:42.800
Craig Lack: Controlled substance is now gone.

443
00:49:43.180 –> 00:49:51.400
Craig Lack: Both vehicle maintenances, because the way that basic measures are determined is, roughly speaking.

444
00:49:52.050 –> 00:50:00.339
Craig Lack: the time weighted number of violation points in the numerator divided by the total number of inspections in the denominator.

445
00:50:00.980 –> 00:50:12.640
Craig Lack: So, the numerator is number of violation points, and the denominator is number of inspections. If you get a clean inspection, the denominator will get bigger, and your measure will get smaller.

446
00:50:12.990 –> 00:50:18.820
Craig Lack: So clean inspections will lower your basic measures or your compliance measures

447
00:50:19.340 –> 00:50:21.510
Craig Lack: which will then lower your percentile.

448
00:50:23.820 –> 00:50:25.570
Craig Lack: If you have a brand-new truck

449
00:50:25.850 –> 00:50:31.659
Craig Lack: I suggest, just run it through, run it by some way stations, and get some clean inspections.

450
00:50:33.330 –> 00:50:34.230
Steve Kessler: Absolutely.

451
00:50:35.010 –> 00:50:45.689
Steve Kessler: Here’s kind of a let’s reemphasize this. Peter is asking, is the maximum number of points per inspection. Now, a theoretical 2.

452
00:50:46.510 –> 00:50:49.179
Steve Kessler: That’s the most points you can get right

453
00:50:50.030 –> 00:50:52.260
Steve Kessler: when this new thing goes into place.

454
00:50:59.460 –> 00:51:02.849
Craig Lack: For a specific compliance category. Let me go here.

455
00:51:09.210 –> 00:51:10.900
Craig Lack: I try font over here.

456
00:51:14.340 –> 00:51:16.750
Craig Lack: No, it could be higher than that.

457
00:51:18.000 –> 00:51:23.810
Craig Lack: Okay, I don’t. I don’t have all the appendices up here, but

458
00:51:24.040 –> 00:51:28.429
Craig Lack: this is all your brakes, once for vehicle maintenance, Driver observed. Okay.

459
00:51:29.180 –> 00:51:35.730
Craig Lack: but there are other vehicle maintenance drivers observed violations that are grouped similarly.

460
00:51:36.210 –> 00:51:39.649
Craig Lack: instead of being brakes here, it might be lamps.

461
00:51:40.500 –> 00:51:47.189
Craig Lack: so, you could get 1 point for all the brake violations and 1 point for lamp violations.

462
00:51:49.330 –> 00:51:53.190
Steve Kessler: And it’s possible to get another point for some other violation. Yes.

463
00:51:53.190 –> 00:51:54.220
Craig Lack: Yes, yes.

464
00:51:54.220 –> 00:51:59.129
Steve Kessler: So, it could be 3. It could be 4 but not going to be 30.

465
00:51:59.130 –> 00:52:00.229
Craig Lack: Not going to be 30.

466
00:52:01.290 –> 00:52:02.189
Steve Kessler: Very good.

467
00:52:03.161 –> 00:52:06.229
Steve Kessler: See if there’s any others here.

468
00:52:06.370 –> 00:52:17.139
Mark Rhea: Steve also wants to put a plug in. We do have an upcoming webinar on from CVSA on the out of service criteria that we can expect to come forward.

469
00:52:17.810 –> 00:52:28.369
Steve Kessler: Yeah, that’s true. I believe that’s August or excuse me. February 25th and that those new out of service criteria go into effect on April 1st

470
00:52:28.510 –> 00:52:29.819
Steve Kessler: of this year.

471
00:52:30.710 –> 00:52:31.279
Steve Kessler: So

472
00:52:32.030 –> 00:52:44.799
Steve Kessler: here’s a question from Dave who says I’m a driver. That accidentally ended up in the safety director’s seat, and the math of the methodology might as well be a foreign language.

473
00:52:45.060 –> 00:52:48.940
Steve Kessler: How important is it to know how the score is calculated!

474
00:52:49.930 –> 00:52:51.707
Steve Kessler: Dave is not.

475
00:52:53.320 –> 00:52:54.129
Craig Lack: Don’t worry about it.

476
00:52:54.130 –> 00:52:54.996
Steve Kessler: Best question.

477
00:52:55.430 –> 00:52:57.090
Craig Lack: FMCSA.

478
00:52:57.520 –> 00:52:59.649
Craig Lack: Is calculating it for you.

479
00:52:59.970 –> 00:53:06.830
Craig Lack: Okay, the only takeaway. Since you’re in the safety director’s seat. Now this.

480
00:53:08.030 –> 00:53:11.829
Craig Lack: Just keep in mind that your percentile score

481
00:53:12.710 –> 00:53:16.339
Craig Lack: it is, is going to change from one month to the next.

482
00:53:16.930 –> 00:53:21.980
Craig Lack: based on any new clean inspections or any new violations.

483
00:53:22.920 –> 00:53:28.650
Craig Lack: So, your score is going to gradually migrate between, you know, along this line

484
00:53:29.010 –> 00:53:32.539
Craig Lack: you don’t have to know math. FMCSA is handling it.

485
00:53:34.600 –> 00:53:36.459
Craig Lack: Just look in your portal.

486
00:53:36.670 –> 00:53:40.620
Craig Lack: If you have questions, Dave, you can. You can reach out to us.

487
00:53:42.940 –> 00:53:45.540
Craig Lack: I can answer it, or we have 2 full time

488
00:53:46.440 –> 00:53:51.129
Craig Lack: certified directors of safety. They could probably also answer your questions.

489
00:53:53.650 –> 00:53:58.110
Steve Kessler: Very good. Thanks, Craig. I have a question here from Brat.

490
00:53:58.330 –> 00:54:04.889
Steve Kessler: Will these one- and 2-point violations still carry time weights?

491
00:54:05.260 –> 00:54:08.000
Steve Kessler: And he’s saying, sorry if this was answered earlier.

492
00:54:08.360 –> 00:54:10.400
Craig Lack: No, they will still carry time weights.

493
00:54:11.090 –> 00:54:13.440
Craig Lack: The time weights are going to be the same, you know.

494
00:54:13.560 –> 00:54:16.969
Craig Lack: One to 6 months, 7 to 1213 to 24.

495
00:54:18.230 –> 00:54:19.970
Steve Kessler: Gotcha. Very good.

496
00:54:20.200 –> 00:54:23.049
Craig Lack: And nobody asked the question but

497
00:54:23.760 –> 00:54:28.640
Craig Lack: the number of compliance categories that is over the threshold

498
00:54:28.830 –> 00:54:32.030
Craig Lack: will then go into determining your CSA score.

499
00:54:36.400 –> 00:54:37.070
Steve Kessler: Okay.

500
00:54:37.829 –> 00:54:45.009
Steve Kessler: I don’t know if you can answer this or not, Craig, it says, does the Federal Government have any of these changes on hold?

501
00:54:49.320 –> 00:54:50.370
Steve Kessler: Maybe.

502
00:54:50.760 –> 00:54:52.420
Craig Lack: It’s been.

503
00:54:52.640 –> 00:54:58.789
Craig Lack: you know, a decade in the making. So, I think they’re under some pressure to make a change.

504
00:54:59.020 –> 00:55:04.630
Craig Lack: because the CSA Basics from 2011 and 2012.

505
00:55:05.580 –> 00:55:10.220
Craig Lack: You know. They’ve tweaked that many times, and it’s still not very good.

506
00:55:11.990 –> 00:55:35.369
Steve Kessler: Yeah. And the FMCSA. Is notorious for announcing things, and then you don’t hear from them for a while, and seems like they’re always way behind what they always what they say at the beginning. So, it’s a little hard to say. But I’ve gotten the impression that they will be making these changes sometime during this year. That’s what I think they’re going to do.

507
00:55:35.370 –> 00:55:37.389
Craig Lack: Yes, I would agree.

508
00:55:37.707 –> 00:55:44.369
Steve Kessler: That’s because this has just all sort of come to the surface recently, and was one of the reasons why

509
00:55:44.500 –> 00:55:59.269
Steve Kessler: we decided to have a little program about this to kind of help. People anticipate what’s coming, and perhaps put some things in place to sort of hit the ground running when these changes do come in.

510
00:56:00.776 –> 00:56:02.010
Steve Kessler: Let’s see

511
00:56:02.230 –> 00:56:17.799
Steve Kessler: one last question. I think we’re pretty much close to our hour limit here. Doing speeding violations still start at 6 miles per hour over the speed limit. In other words, are they given an okay on the one to 5 over.

512
00:56:19.750 –> 00:56:23.340
Craig Lack: I’d have to check the proposed documentation.

513
00:56:25.090 –> 00:56:26.919
Craig Lack: but I sure would hope they would.

514
00:56:28.020 –> 00:56:28.620
Craig Lack: I would.

515
00:56:28.620 –> 00:56:35.569
Steve Kessler: I think, as a general rule, law enforcement is going to give people 5 miles most of the time.

516
00:56:36.100 –> 00:56:36.560
Craig Lack: Correct.

517
00:56:36.560 –> 00:56:37.140
Steve Kessler: Wow!

518
00:56:37.650 –> 00:56:40.969
Craig Lack: Yeah, whoever asked it check out the methodology document

519
00:56:41.470 –> 00:56:44.339
Craig Lack: that you can find on the FMCSA websites.

520
00:56:45.930 –> 00:56:51.049
Steve Kessler: They should have complete lists and charts of all these different things. Right.

521
00:56:51.200 –> 00:56:51.790
Craig Lack: Yep.

522
00:56:51.790 –> 00:56:52.429
Steve Kessler: Very good.

523
00:56:52.430 –> 00:56:53.399
Craig Lack: They do.

524
00:56:54.790 –> 00:57:05.019
Steve Kessler: Awesome. Well, one last reminder to everybody out there is that this webinar was recorded. Everybody that registered or attended in person

525
00:57:05.200 –> 00:57:15.829
Steve Kessler: will receive an email from us with a link to this reply. So, you can watch it again. You can share it with some folks that weren’t able to join us today.

526
00:57:16.030 –> 00:57:16.660
Steve Kessler: But

527
00:57:18.310 –> 00:57:27.449
Steve Kessler: I think there’s some positive changes that are coming. People have requested. Some of these changes have been made for quite a while.

528
00:57:27.670 –> 00:57:42.129
Steve Kessler: and I’m hoping this has the right impact in the business, and I think if nothing else, it’s going to make us pay real close attention to minimizing the violations as much as possible.

529
00:57:42.360 –> 00:57:48.430
Steve Kessler: You know. The bottom line here is, if you don’t have any violations, you don’t really have anything to worry about.

530
00:57:48.670 –> 00:58:00.170
Steve Kessler: so, I think we’ll have to focus heavily on proper training and pay attention to our violations and making sure we understand what’s going on out there.

531
00:58:01.110 –> 00:58:06.929
Steve Kessler: So, let me see if there are any last questions.

532
00:58:08.650 –> 00:58:20.130
Steve Kessler: I think we’ve covered pretty much all the questions. So, Craig, let me thank you. For your information and your efforts here.

533
00:58:21.400 –> 00:58:47.179
Steve Kessler: I’m hoping people will reach out to you, Craig, if they have further questions, and we do thank all of you for joining us on the program today. So, look forward to the next program, which I think is going to be February 25.th You’ll get an invite, and we’ll get some updates out to everybody on the new out of service criteria that’ll start in the spring in April.

534
00:58:47.610 –> 00:58:52.110
Steve Kessler: So, thank you all for joining us, Craig. Thank you much.

535
00:58:52.280 –> 00:58:58.660
Steve Kessler: Mark. Thank you. And with that we will end the webinar. So, thank you all very much.

536
00:58:58.940 –> 00:59:00.029
Mark Rhea: Thank you, Craig.

537
00:59:00.200 –> 00:59:01.029
Craig Lack: Thank you.

538
00:59:01.350 –> 00:59:03.089
Craig Lack: Everybody. Have a good day.